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Weekend Discussion Thread
- Filed under: McCain, National Landscape 2008
- Date: Jun 14,2008
On Thursday, the Supreme Court issued what I consider a disgrace of a ruling. The Supreme Court decided that for the first time in American history, non-American enemy combatants detained abroad during a war have a constitutional right to habeas corpus. Chief Justice John Roberts wrote the ruling "strikes down as inadequate the most generous set of procedural protections ever afforded aliens detained by this country as enemy combatants." This ruling broke the precedent the Court has previously set in 1950 in Johnson v. Eisentrager, in which the Court ruled that non-citizen enemies had no access to U.S. courts in wartime.
Based on previous rulings by this court, the decision was not all that surprising. Obviously there were four judges who would support this, and as usual, we had to pin our hopes on Kennedy - who ended up writing for the majority. It looked the five justice majority knew where they wanted to go with the ruling and had to decide how to achieve their goal. Extending the Constitution to apply to people that it was never intended to apply to is what happened here.
Senator McCain jumped all over the ruling Friday saying it was "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country." McCain needs to bring this up again and again and again and again. People are upset about this. The ruling is terrible, it hurts American security, and grants our rights to those who want to kill us, but it could help the McCain Campaign. It also highlights the difference between possible appointments of McCain and Obama.
Worth Asking: But if one is going to invent Constitutional rights out of thin air, it's worth asking: What moral universe do Justices Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, Stephens, and Souter inhabit when they are willing to manufacture constitutional rights for unlawful enemy combatants who want to slit the throats and watch innocent Americans bleed and die while at the same time uphold manufactured constitutional rights that allow people to abort innocent unborn children?
But all that aside, one of the great things about this country is that when the Supreme Court issues a ruling, people follow it. It is actually pretty amazing when you think about it. Nine justices say something and that is that. Whether or not you agree with each and every ruling (and who really does), it is remarkable to watch the immediate effect on American life they have.
Anything else you want to discuss on the first real weekend of the general election? Feel free. I want to mention Tim Russert. Big loss for the political world. I will certainly miss his "Senate Debate Series" on Meet the Press.
11 Responses for "Weekend Discussion Thread"
I would sympathize more with your thinking here about the Supremes' ruling if the U.S. was currently operating from a declaration of war. We're not.
Civilized nations accept habeas corpus for all people. It seems fundamental to all who believe in equal justice.
Holding prisoners indefinitely without charging them with specific crimes may have been the right call during a time of declared war. Holding prisoners indefinitely without habeas rights during an international criminal hunt for extremists, which may never end, is not acceptable, and that's why the five Justices made the right call here.
By the way…this is the third time the Supreme Court has thrown a collar on Bush's extra-Constitutional leanings.
….
Tim Russert was never my favorite….but I'm sure he was a good family man who will be sorely missed by those who loved him. A tragic death.
I am glad the government will now be forced to offer one shred of evidence to a real judge to justify indefinite detention. And the notion this is some big deal is just absurd fearmongering. All this means is that the government must be able to show they have a specific peice of evidence. It doesn't give them speedy trial rights or other stuff. And if there is no evidence, why would we hold them? Just because Ben Keeler and John McCain thinks we should?
What all you fearmonger lunatics don't get is that things like our indefinite detention with no evidence and torture is what grows hatred of America. We are loved for our rule of law and you people seek to bastardize that! And we cannot spread our democracy when we have no rule of law!
We should not hold people without evidence. It is fundamental to any system of justice. And if we want to hold ourselves out to be the beacons of justice and democracy (which we usually are), we can't be hypocrites.
So this ruling restores a little dignity to our system. Might be a small step to some, and perhaps too late to change the tides of anti-Americanism to many, but it is right.
And as a side note to the idiot fearmongers: this is f–king America. We are a great, strong nation. We can protect ourselves from the say 50 guys we should probably release from Gitmo. Calm the f down and get some perspective. And if I am wrong and these guys destroy us, then I guess our nation is a weak pathetic nation and can't figure out how to defend itself after 9/11. Well, I feel we are better than that, so I will not live through the fear you guys do.
and how dare you insult Kennedy after 2000. He is one of 5 reasons you have had all your fun in the past 8 years.
Oh yeah, and so much for you new hero bringing this up "again and again and again and again"….
McCain, 2003:
"A serious process must be established in the very near term either to formally treat and process the detainees as war criminals or to return them to their countries for appropriate judicial action."
McCain, 2003:
"They may not have any rights under the Geneva Conventions as far as I’m concerned, but they have rights under various human rights declarations. And one of them is the right not to be detained indefinitely."
I know its a hard concept for you people to understand, but this is proof that your hero McCain is HYPOCRITE.
and a total fraud.
the law struck down was the doing of the senate with over 60 votes. not gw bush
Despite sour grapes Bush was a Constitutionally elected president. One thing that bill clinton and George Bush have in common was that neither were elected by a majority vote their first term. (Over 50% + 1).
Another signal to all of us that the ultimate authority in this country is slowly but steadily the judicial branch and their lawyer sidekicks
The Judicial branch is supposed to have equal power to the executive….you get that, right? So them overriding one small area of Bush's "war on terror" is a far cry taking over the country.
Calm down and gain some perspective.
Some virus must have been released into the air on 9-11 affecting close to a third of Americans.
The symptoms from catching the virus reveal themselves in a willingness to throw, or temporarily set aside, our Constitutional framework. Those who catch this virus have a difficult time shaking it.
The Islamic extremist issue, Bin Laden's 9-11 attack….are serious matters, without doubt. And also without doubt is the fact that Islamic extremists represent a tiny handful of stateless and weapons-less international criminals.
If the Court would have gone the other way….then this tiny handful of extremists, led by Osama, would have won another victory over American freedoms.
Those who advocate for a dismantling of our American Heritage of Constitutional law and order….sorry….are, knowingly or unknowingly, doing Osama's bidding.
Rev,
Before you lecture folks about the Constitution, I recommend you actually read the document. No where in it does it call for any specific rights for enemy combatants.
Separately, when you state: "And also without doubt is the fact that Islamic extremists represent a tiny handful of stateless and weapons-less international criminals." You are actually expressing the Clinton mindset that led to 9/11. Aw their small, their harmless . . . So they bombed an embassy or two. So they bombed the USS Cole. So, they bombed the World Trade Center in a failed attempt to bring it down. We showed them we were not going to respond seriously. That led them to plan a bigger attack.
Am I missing something or have people forgot there are these nations called iran or syria? They do give training to these fanatics along with safe refuge. There are other nations that are slowly becoming like them. I tell you what, let us be cowards and pull out now. In 20 years when the feces hits the fan worse we will just blame Bush again but claim then he did not do enough just like they all said that his father did not do. Will that be OK?
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