"Yeah, I'm not for guilt by association when it is an incident here or there. A 20 year relationship is different."

What other conclusion could I come to?

And if you Ben, or I, had a 20 year working relationship with someone who turned out to be an extortionist or a drug dealer, and we didn't know about it…would we also be guilty of extortion or drug dealing? Or would we only be guilty, as Dave inplies, of not terminating our working relationship before the co-worker was busted?

Dave also, incorrectly, agrees with Ben's statement that the religio-wingers catch heck from media and therefore, there's no double standard. Is McCain being asked to "have an open an honest dialog" about Hagee or Parsley, as Jason suggests Obama should have about Wright? Is he? If not, why not?

Also I was wandering how long it was going to take to bring up Faldwell, Robertson and even Bob Jones University. Ben is correct in that these fellas are constantly scrutinized and demonized by the media when they make inflamatory remarks. What you left out was that none of these individuals where Bush's or McCain's pastor. Keep drinking the Passion Punch Kool-aid Rev and grabbing for straws. If you throw enough out there, we may be able to extract something that resembles logic.

Yeah, I'm not for guilt by association when it is an incident here or there. A 20 year relationship is different.

"I am not for guilt by association, but this is a 20 year relationship by Obama's choice."

Should we disassociate ourselves from a guy who lies in such an obvious way. Should we reject AND denounce Ben here for lying?

Of course, Ben is FOR guilt by association. That's Ben's reason for posting this stuff.

Obama also has relationships with extremist-nuts at his job. Extremists who pit Jews and Christians against Muslims. Should he denounce AND reject some of his fellow senators? Should he resign from the senate rather than be associated with the hateful extremism and lies voiced there by neo-con nuts?

Should Obama reject AND denounce fellow senator John McCain because McCain is endorsed heartily by Islam exterminator Rod Parsley?

Briefly, Obama is NOT responsible for what his preacher…..or his mailman, or his grocer, or his dry cleaner, or his babysitter…..says or believes, just because he is in a "relationship" with these people by getting his mail, buying groceries, picking up dry cleaning or having his children watched.

The logic here would be like blaming the subscriber and reader of a magazine for a wild-eyed article within one of it's issues. Hey, if he subscribed to it, he must agree with what's in it. Will you now, reader and subscriber, denounce and reject this magazine and cancel your subscription, disassociating yourself from any extremism found within it's pages…or will you remain tainted by the article by continuing to subscribe to the magazine?

Illogical, anti-American, totalitarian thinking. Thinking prevalent in authoritarian dictatorships.

Falwell, Robertson and the usual nut suspects endorsed Bush, yet they had views of 9-11 similar to Wright's. No double standard there though, is there? Same with McCain and his double nut endorsements by Hagee (talk about a crazed individual) and Parsley.

Truth is this: Obama is such a threat to establishment power….nothing will be off limits in the current frenzy to defeat him. Media whores and wingnuts alike have joined forces to discredit Obama. 527's this summer and fall will lift the lid on the cesspool of power and lunacy that operates the Mighty Wurlitzer.

It will get lots uglier.

But Ben isn't for "guilt by association".

The question is: at what point do we diverge so much that we no longer can support it? Who gets to decide that? And what are the consequences of continuing to follow or breaking with what had previously attracted us?

Obama is no different than the rest of us – and so in that sense, I would like to hear him talk about this situation in that light. I think he's pretty much told us already though: Wright meant a lot to him, means less now in a concrete way but more as someone who, in the past, had a significant impact.

What Obama needs to do is universilize this – and not with the crazy uncle comparison. Frankly, I thought that was the wrong analogy when I first heard it come out just a very short time after he met with Jewish leaders in NEOhio a couple of weeks ago.

"Does our past history as a white race deserve blame?? Absolutely."

As a person of the white race, what crimes have you committed on behalf of your race? Burn any crosses? Deny minorities home loans? Vote for any Copperheads? Did you write legislation to restrict gun ownerships in the post-Reconstruction so that blacks were disarmed and subject to white lynch mobs?

I agree with the rest of your post, by the way. I think we know that Mrs. Obama would agree with the pastor in question.

H/T to the great one, George Carlin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

You have such a wonderful way with words, Ben. Keep it up!

http://tinyurl.com/22ws3k